Fwd: Plato's Chariot...

-----Original Message-----
From: b <rrdd3939@aol.com>
To: rrdd3939 <rrdd3939@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 4:46 pm
Subject: Plato's Chariot...

                 Plato's Man in the Cave Series continues: PLATO'S CHARIOT

 (reading other installments not required but strongly urged as we worked hard on them!)

                            by Citizen Journalist with Richard DePersio

 

And, so it would appear as if today's physicist believes in the numbers and perfect forms of

Plato's Heaven and puts less stock in observations and experiments. When there is an

observation or experiment to confirm a 'theory' one such observation or experiment shall

suffice. Of course, they were much more rigorous and demanding of Einstein's Relativity.

(Perhaps, it wouldn't hurt to check out previous installment. It is on the first floor below).

(We will tell you up front: We are more in accord with Plato's Cave and Heaven, as opposed

to his Chariot. Why do you think?).

 

Soul: The Charioteer is reason, he tries to manage the horses; guide us to truth. The white horse

is of noble breed and difficult to control: spiritedness; moral impulse; irascible; bold. The

black horse is even more difficult to manage: uncontrolled appetite; desire; feelings; black drives;

basic impulses; irrational; uncontrollable passions, concupiscent.

      Horses try to pull us in different directions. Some rise to heaven and enlightenment; others

may frequently bob into it; the remainder lose control of horses, lose wings, fall to earth,

some having occasionally seeing truth and some not.

      The order of enlightenment: philosophers (naturally, Plato places them in the first order);

law-abiding kings, civic leaders; politicians, businessman; those who specialize in bodily

heath; prophets, members of mystery cults; artists; craftsman; farmers; sophists or

demagogues; tyrants.

      It should be noted that in the Ancient Greece and the Greek Empire with the possible

exception of the Ionians that working with one's hands was frowned upon for it was the

activity of slaves. Slaves were at the bottom of the totem pole (interesting choice of words).

A notch above were peasants who worked for owners of farms and clerks who worked for store

owners or politicians. A notch above them were the craftsman with stone masons being at the

peak of this group; above them were artists. Philosophers engage in thought when dealing with

ethical philosophy and when they engaged in naturally philosophy (science) thought and

mathematics. On those rare occasions when they felt it absolutely necessary to engage in

observations or experiments, they considered it degrading (not the Ionians) and akin to slavery.

These attitudes continued in the Roman Empire to the Renaissance and to a certain extant they are

 still with us. We may as well complete the process: Next came property owners; above them

were politicians who were also property owners. At the pinnacle? Philosophers placed themselves

there while kings thought otherwise. We confident that philosophers didn't tell kings what they

thought regarding top of placement.

      Some people see a correlation between Freud's  Id, Ego and Superego and Plato's Chariot.

Id: Uncoordinated; instinctual; with us from birth; primary component of personality; I want it

now! Ego: organized, realistic; pleasure principle - will try to satisfy id if only with a mental image

of it being satisfied (primary process). Anxiety, tension if ego fails. Superego: critical and

moralizing. It may deny Id or match reality to primary process or modify Id's desire into something

realistic to have and socially acceptable. Moral standards and ideals come from parents and society;

superego emerges at age 5. Id = black horse; Ego = white horse; Superego = Charioteer. Do you

see similarities?

      

Fwd: From Plato's Cave to Plato's Heaven...

-----Original Message-----
From: b <rrdd3939@aol.com>
To: rrdd3939 <rrdd3939@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:30 pm
Subject: From Plato's Cave to Plato's Heaven...

                               Plato's Man in the Cave Series continues...

(Reading other installment recommended by not absolutely necessary; look downstairs)

                                From PLATO's CAVE to PLATO's HEAVEN

                      by Richard DePersio with Plato and Citizen Journalist

 

Scientists accept brain and mathematics: the Material (or Physical) World and the

Math. World. They reject the non-material: mind (as differentiated from brain); consciousness

(being self-aware as separate from brain); soul (the supernatural).

 

The religious believe in the Material World and the Spiritual World. Mind/Consciousness is

intimately connected to but more than brain: part of and separate from it. Further, they

contend that mind is intimately connected to soul and soul to God or a greater mind or

consciousness.

 

Note: We employ the proper terminology. Scientists accept or reject a concept while the

religious believe or disbelieve a proposition. Scientists like Michio Kaku use believe when

talking science. Are we nitpicking? Is it just semantics? The appear to almost religiously

believe in that which is proven mathematically with little or no evidence (observational and

experimental) to support it. Remember: Math is abstract. Of course. the religious have

faith, therefore, evidence isn't required. Kaku sounds like a scientific preacher. The religious

put stock in revelation, prophesy and miracles. Yet, they disbelieve in ghosts, flying

sauces, astrology, numerology, witchcraft. They don't believe in fortune tellers but believe in

prophets.

 

And, then came Plato. He's Back! And, Citizen Journalist Comsats got him. What if the

perfect definition and understanding of abstract concepts such as love, freedom and justice

existed in Heaven or in God? What if perfect geometrical forms existed there as well? When

you make a point with a pencil on paper, the point has a little bit of length, width and depth.

The same is true of a line or a triangle. We used the terms number and numeral interchange-

ably, however, in the strictest sense a number is abstract and a numeral is a representation

of a number. Scientists accept numbers and geometry.

 

Let cogitate on the previous paragraph. Perhaps, some scientists and some religious can both

agree to it. Going beyond it is a bit more tricky. We were souls in god or heaven and could

appreciate perfect forms. When we are made to inhabit a corrupt body, we lose that ability.

However, employing reason not faith some of us might come closer to apprehending it more

often than others - thruth.

 

Roger Penrose, physicist and philosopher, I would like you to meet Plato - no last name -

philosopher and mathematician. Roger holds that the KNOWN laws of physics fail to explain

consciousness. He talks in terms of the Mental (Mind) World, the Math World and the

Physical World with each creating the other.

                                                       To Be Continued...

Fwd: PLATO's HEAVEN...

-----Original Message-----
From: b <rrdd3939@aol.com>
To: rrdd3939 <rrdd3939@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:52 am
Subject: PLATO's HEAVEN...

                                   "Plato's Man in the Cave" series continues...

                                                      Plato's Heaven

                                    by Richard DePersio and Citizen Journalist

                      (Reading other chapters encouraged {we worked hard on them

                                   but not necessary}; look below this chapter)

 

What is reality?

      The singularity of a black hole is a point; it is at the center of the black hole

relative to itself. The event horizon is the circumference of the black hole; it doesn't

shrink to a singularity relative to the universe.

      Black holes are predicted by Einstein's Relativity. Physicists had a problem with

the singularity for a particle would loose its identity (mass, spin, charge) there.

      A photograph or T.V. screen is 2-dimensional but gives a partial illusion of

having 3-dimensions. A hologram is 2-dimensional but looks virtually 3-dimensional.

      Physicists are now talking in terms of information or the info in the form of

mathematics retaining the identity of the particle on the inside of the event horizon (which

is 3-dimensional) as a hologram. The even go so far as to maintain that the edge or

circumference of the universe is an event horizon. Info about subatomic particles to

people to galaxies exist as a hologram on the universal event horizon.

       Now we'll go in the other direction. Electrons are made of strings. Protons and

neutrons are made of quarks which in turn are made of strings. Strings consist of

information or info in the form of mathematics. Does this imply that everything is based on

nothing but info? The atom is 99% empty space. A string is numbers. It all 'exists' on an

event horizon!

      Space might not be empty be consist of dark energy (anti-gravity). Most of the

universe is invisible and made up of dark matter.

       Now we'll go in the other direction. Subatomic particles like protons sometimes behave

like particles and sometimes like waves. Massless light likewise: particles and waves.

       If there was a singularity that banged giving birth to our universe, it would mean that

space/time, dark energy and matter had a beginning. Who or what created the singularity

and caused it to bang? Could it be that the bang was actually a white hole, the other end of

a black hole. The black hole was a collapsed universe. White hole to universe to black hole

to white hole to universe. God or universe always was, is and will be.

       Strings are 4-dimensional: time + length, width and depth (3-dimensions of space).

Could strings actually be a brane (or membrane) of 10-dimensions floating in a sea of the

11-dimension? Could two branes collide giving rise to a big bang. A singularity would have

infinite mass. Physicists don't like infinities. The branes would be ever so slightly larger than a

point. Where are the other dimensions? There all around us: We just can't see them!

       Objects exist in space. Space itself is made up of space (11-ds)-time and dark energy.

Of course, objects are projected on an event horizon. Do the objects themselves exist outside

of the information?

       Nature consists of four fundamental forces: electro-magnetic, strong nuclear, weak nuclear

and gravity. The first three are about the same strength. Gravity is much weaker. Might it be

that gravity is spread over all 10-dimensions and is equal in strength to the other three but not

in the 3-spatial dimensions. Person A is standing still relative to Person B and their clocks are

ticking off time at the same rate. Now Person A approaches Person B and Person B's clock

ticks slower. Why? It is now moving in the dimensions of space. Time is spread: It slows down.

Of course, it is immeasurable. An object would have to move at 90% or more of the speed of light

for the slowing of the clock to be measurable.

       As we stated in a previous chapter of Plato's Cave: Have scientists since the 1920s been

accepting mathematically proven speculation as fact sans observations and experiments. This

would include the concept of multi-universes. This would include Kaku leading the pack. It used

to be speculation-model-theory-widely accepted theory-fact. Most likely concept would never

make it to fact stage unless backed up by more than enough observations and experiments.

       We should point out that there are three types of speculation: math/reason/logic; reason/logic;

revelation. We have no problem with the first - just so long as it isn't prematurely labeled fact.

                                                   To Be Continued...