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COMSAT-AK - Alexa (My Wonderful Niece, 13)K - Caty (My Wonderful Niece, 16)For the latest: Connect to our 5 comsats (web sites) from Twitter @rickaddsite, Facebook Second American Revolution and Richard DePersio (Bookmark/Add to Favorites). Comsat for Astronomy & Philosophy.
Thursday, April 29, 2010
The Long Countdown - The Fight Over NASA’s Future - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/science/30spac.html?_r=1
Monday, April 12, 2010
Fwd: Mind vs Body: What I Think Is What I Am
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Jacobson <walterdoc@mac.com>
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:57 pm
Subject: Mind vs Body: What I Think Is What I Am
Mind vs Body: What I Think Is What I Am
=
From: Walter Jacobson <walterdoc@mac.com>
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 1:57 pm
Subject: Mind vs Body: What I Think Is What I Am
Editor's Note: The Doctor is in the House. He's making his second house call.
Dr. Jacobson is a Board Certified Psychiatrist who has been in private practice in the Los Angeles area since 1999. He specializes in insight oriented psychotherapy, cognitive therapy, marriage counseling, medication management and spiritual psychotherapy. He was Editor of the The Southern California Psychiatrist, the monthly newsletter of the Southern California Psychiatric Society for two years and has written hundreds of articles and blog posts about psychiatry and mental health.
I was asked by a cyber friend to give my opinion regarding the mind and the brain, the mind and the body, and the role genetics plays in the psychological makeup of individuals.
The first point I'd like to make is that the mind and the brain are not the same. The brain is part of the body. It is an organ like other organs in the body. It is part of the material world.
The mind is not part of the material world. The mind is not housed in the brain. The mind has no specific location. It is not confined to time or space. It is unlimited in its creative power.
Our body is limited. Our body has no creative power. Our body does our mind's bidding. It does this when it gets sick, recovers from illnesses, gets old, and dies. All of this happens first in the mind, at an unconscious level.
When our body is sick, it is our mind that has generated the problem, and, therefore, it is our mind we must look to for the solution. In other words, "Only the mind can be sick and only the mind is in need of healing." This is a quote from "A Course In Miracles," which presents a thought system I believe in.
The question you're now asking yourself is: "Where is the proof upon which he bases this belief?"
When some people who are depressed are given a placebo and told it is an antidepressant, their depression goes away, including their loss of appetite, their difficulty sleeping, their impaired attention and concentration, their loss of interest in things they like to do, and their somatic problems as well, such as headaches, stomach aches, muscle tension, and other physical discomforts. How can this be?
When some people who have chronic pain are hypnotized, their pain nerve fibers in their body are still firing like crazy, but there is no perceived pain. How can this be?
When some people use hypnosis while getting root canal without anesthesia, they experience no pain. How can this be?
When some women use hypnosis to undergo C-sections to deliver their babies without anesthesia, they experience no pain. How can this be?
When some people with cancers use guided imagery to visualize cancer cells being gobbled up by an army of white blood cells, their cancers go into remission. How can this be?
When some people focus their mind using biofeedback techniques, they are able to manage their pain, lower their blood pressure, and lower their heart rate. How can this be?
When some people use affirmations and visualizations to mobilize the Law of Attraction, positive outcomes are generated in their physical world. How can this be?
The reason why all these things occur is because everything starts in the mind. The mind is the prime mover. We create our reality from our thoughts.
Everything in the physical world is an illusion generated by the Collective Mind, including our bodies. Long ago, we hypnotized ourselves into believing that we are bodies and that our bodies can be sick and die. And then we forgot that we did this.
And so, now, we identify with our bodies. And because our bodies are frail, get diseased, get old and die, we embrace fear at the core of our unconsciousness.
From that fear comes every perception we have in the world of scarcity, lack, limitation and separation, and the need for competition and aggression as a means to survive and succeed. And from all of this comes every negative emotion we experience, including depression, anxiety, and anger.
Were we to use our conscious mind to override our negativity by replacing our fear thoughts with thoughts of unconditional love, acceptance, forgiveness, and unity, all the manifestations of our fear would go away, our mind would be restored to sanity, peace and joy, our body would be restored to perfect health, and our world would reflect abundance and prosperity.
Our ego mind, that unconscious part of our mind that houses our fear, is already telling you that this is absurd and that only a naïve fool would endorse a philosophy that love can conquer all the evils in the world.
It is reminding you that nice guys finish last, that no good deed goes unpunished, that survival of the fittest means an eye for an eye, kill or be killed, and that no one can defend themselves with love.
Certainly, as long we believe in bodies, as long as we identify with our ego mind, which is devoted to preserving the idea that bodies are real, and as long as we are unaware that everything we now see is a figment of our fear thoughts, it would be insane to not defend ourselves when we are attacked, and to not take antibiotics when we get sick.
The point is this: We must change the way we think. We must stop being victims of our bodies and realize the power of our minds to create reality.
The first step in this process is to heal our mind by letting go of judgments as best we can, by accepting others as best we can, by letting go of resentments and grievances as best we can, by forgiving others as best we can, by being of service to others as best we can, and by extending compassion and unconditional love to others as best we can.
As we do this, we will see gradual improvements in our lives, in the form of greater happiness, well-being, and material success.
As to the role genetics plays in our psychological makeup: As long as we believe we are bodies, genetics will be a powerful force influencing our emotional as well as our physical reality. Brain illnesses such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, ADHD, and personality disorders run in families. They have a genetic component.
However, when we get real good at releasing our judgments and attack thoughts, giving no power to the illusions of fear, and focusing instead on unconditional love, acceptance and forgiveness, we will transcend genetics and all bodily limitations.
Tuesday, April 6, 2010
Fwd: MUSINGS and EDITOR'S NOTE and COMING SOON
"GOD DOESN'T PLAY DICE WITH THE UNIVERSE"
Coming Soon: "MIND VS. BODY: WHAT I THINK IS WHAT
I AM" by Dr. Walter Jacabson
WMAP: Personal message from below continued: The visible light is now invisible
light. Like everyone else astronomers see in the visible. The colors are computer-generated to enable analysis (A color indicates how hot or cool a spot is).
OUR QUEST FOR A THEORY OF EVERYTHING CONTINUES. WE HOPE THAT
OUR READERS WILL CONTRIBUTE OBSERVATIONS, STATEMENTS AND
ARTICLES (rrdd3939@aol.com).
OUR READERS WILL CONTRIBUTE OBSERVATIONS, STATEMENTS AND
ARTICLES (rrdd3939@aol.com).
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 5:43 pm
Subject: MUSINGS and EDITOR'S NOTE and COMING SOON
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 5:43 pm
Subject: MUSINGS and EDITOR'S NOTE and COMING SOON
MUSINGS: What's between my legs - correction: Ears...Ladies, Down with your genes...In the cave.
Editor's Note: The series has now grown to six: "Plato's Cave - New Version"; New:
Doctor Jacobson's Comment on "Plato's Cave" (from a psychological perspective as
opposed to a philosophical or physics perspective); New: the WMAP and Explanation;
"Perspectives"; "What Between My Ears" and Addendum.
NASA.gov - Top Story - NEW IMAGE OF INFANT UNIVERSE REVEALS ERA OF FIRST STARS, AGE OF COSMOS, AND MORE - Feb. 11, 2003
rrdd3939@aol.com has sent you this article.
Personal Message:
Richard DePersio. Light There be Light. This represents the first visible
light created in the universe. Red light is visible. Beyond the red is
infrared followed by microwave (nearest part of radio portion of the
electromagnetic spectrum). 3 degree kelvin radiation is in the microwave
and surrounds the whole universe. The burst of bright and blinding light
occurred about 400,000 years after the big bang. Since then the universe
has continued to expand and cool.
Top Story - NEW IMAGE OF INFANT UNIVERSE REVEALS ERA OF FIRST STARS, AGE OF COSMOS, AND MORE - Feb. 11, 2003
Related Links For more information contact: Nancy Neal NASA Headquarters Washington, DC (Phone: 202/358-2369) Bill Steigerwald Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Md. (Phone: 301/286-5017) MAP Glossary (PDF File) MAP Primer (PDF File) You must have Acrobat Reader (a free download) to view the files above.
Click the following to access the link:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0206mapresults.html
****************************
NASA Privacy Statement:
http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/HP_Privacy.html
Monday, April 5, 2010
NASA.gov - The First Communications Satellite
rrdd3939@aol.com has sent you this article.
Personal Message:
OUR FIRST COMMUNICATION SATELLITE
The First Communications Satellite
Click the following to access the link:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_559.html
****************************
NASA Privacy Statement:
http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/HP_Privacy.html
Fwd: PLATO'S MAN IN A CAVE - NEW VERSION
Subject: Re: PLATO'S MAN IN A CAVE - NEW VERSION
EDITOR'S NOTE: Doc's psychological twist
EDITOR'S NOTE: Doc's psychological twist
this "common sense" world you speak of that we inhabit is NOT real. it is an illusion, we are not bodies, we are mind/consciousness. we have identified with an idea, that idea being ego, and the ego believes in time and space and bodies and disease and death. we invented this world and then forgot that we made it up, and now we can't wake ourselves up out of it....
=
On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:33 PM, rrdd3939@aol.com wrote:
Physics or philosophical perspectiveOur common sense world might be a corruption of reality. Reality might exist in thebizarre quantum world and ultimate reality in the stranger quantum/relativity world - if we can find it! Plato with one foot in this world and the other on a higher plane - sohe thought. Will we have to except it as well. (Brain singular or) Brain/Mind two sidesof same coin. Complete each other. Will we need to have one foot in this world and theother in the quantum/relativity world.=
Walter E Jacobson, MD
Psychiatrist, Speaker & Author.
Spiritual Solutions & Cognitive Tools for Happiness, Well-Being &
Material Success.
Subscribe to my blog: http://walterjacobsonmd.wordpress.com
Join me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/walterdoc
Join me on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1477197255&ref=profile#
Join me on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=27562995&locale=en_US&t
rk=tab_pro
Walter E Jacobson, MD
Psychiatrist, Speaker & Author.
Spiritual Solutions & Cognitive Tools for Happiness, Well-Being &
Material Success.
Subscribe to my blog: http://walterjacobsonmd.wordpress.com
Join me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/walterdoc
Join me on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1477197255&ref=profile#
Join me on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=27562995&locale=en_US&t
rk=tab_pro
Psychiatrist, Speaker & Author.
Spiritual Solutions & Cognitive Tools for Happiness, Well-Being &
Material Success.
Subscribe to my blog: http://walterjacobsonmd.wordpress.com
Join me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/walterdoc
Join me on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1477197255&ref=profile#
Join me on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=27562995&locale=en_US&t
rk=tab_pro
Fwd: WHAT'S BETWEEN MY EARS?
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939.sunspots@blogger.com
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 10:17 pm
Subject: Fwd: WHAT'S BETWEEN MY EARS?
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To:
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 8:35 pm
Subject: WHAT'S BETWEEN MY EARS?
Dear Other Selfs,
Don't worry about paying your rent: the liberal/secular media's messiah has arrived. Actually. I wish him the best - he is my president and Bush left him a financial mess. The liberal biased media doesn't want you to know that Billy-boy Clinton made it possible for individuals with little or no credit to get mortgages through Fanny and Freddy! President Bush thought that it was good idea to allow low income people to have the opportunity to own a house until 2005 when he realized that the policy Clinton implemented '98 had gone too far. He tried through executive decisions in 2005 to rectify the situation to no avail. He directed republican leaders to raise the issue with the chairman of the Senate Banking and Finance Committee, Barney 'is my skirt to short' Frank. He was told that there was a housing problem that could turn into a crisis. He refused to take any action and claimed that the republicans were making things up He was on watch and there
were no problems. And then came the domino effect: the mortgage domino fell leading to the fall of investment and commercial bank and wall street dominos. By the way, he. Oboma and other democrats were receiving campaign contributions - some for many years - from Fanny mae and Freddy Mac - - - both of which are semi-independent federal agencies. Possible crime here. Do you think the democrats will investigate their own. They and their liberals cohorts in the mainstream media will continue to blame Bush. You should spend some time thinking about the big, profound, cosmic questions before they place you six feet under. As for the democrats in congress - they were born with strong liberal genes...
The mind-body problem: Sociobiology; Tabula Rasa and Saving Self.
At least they don't tell me when to speak or go skydiving: Or, do they?!
Physicalists are philosophers who like most computer scientists, evolutionary psychologists and neuro-scientists harbor the view that the mind is physical and that mental states are neurological states or properties. And most of them subscribe to the sociobiological perspective regarding mind: intelligence; consciousness; thought; perception; memory; emotion; will; imagination; unconsciousness; personality; behavior.There's more in your genes then you think! Neurons are the brains nerve cells and cells contain genes. You can be born with a strong homosexual gene and therefore are likely to grow-up to be Barneyy Franks. They can't help being what they are anymore then you can, as a result, their life style should be excepted as normal
and condoned by society and recognized by government. (They aren't immoral -Bible; they aren't abnormal - traditional biology). You can be born with a strong criminal gene. Consequently,criminals shouldn't be severely punished they just couldn't help but shoot that guy. As Ann Courtler points out in her book, The church of liberalism:
" Why is it that liberals say that child molesters shouldn't be imprisoned but should receive psychotherapy instead. Weren't they born with a strong child molester gene? They can be helped but homosexuals can't. (I paraphrased somewhat). You can even be born with a strong nasty gene or a strong greedy gene - you got the idea. You programmed like a computer!
Some say that it's part nature(genes) and part nurture (environment). I don't find this argument palatable. X was born with a strong nasty gene and Y a weak nasty gene. What determines whether or not he will grow up to be nasty? They should just drop nature from the equation.
Their strongest argument: twins separated at birth have a 50% chance to grow up to have a similar personality and background. I don' find their argument compelling.
Bible: man has free will; traditional biology: human's have the most advanced brains and therefor aren'tslaves of their biology.
Tabula Rasa. Ibn Sina, Persian philosopher in the 11th century, "human intellect at birth is rather like a tabula rasa (blank slate), a pure potentiality that is actualized through education and that knowledge is attained through empirical familiarity with objects in this world from which gains abstract, universal conceptswhich is developed through reason ; observations lead to propositional statements which when compounded lead to further abstract concepts." The theory - originally proposed by Aristotle - has gone virtually unchanged.
Clearly, psychosis are the result of genes or structural brain structure damage. The meaning of facial expressions made by infants are universal.
Saving Self: at this juncture, we can all agree that genes determine hair texture, eye color,
congenital and hereditary disease, etc. There can be environmental constraints on realization. Genes might indicate that an individual will be tall and muscular due to lack of food or sanitary conditions or other factors in which the individual inhabits this might not come to pass. Biological characteristics,
Supporters of dualism maintain that mental phenomena are in some respects non-physical. They hold the view that phenomena may be perceived through a person's senses or with the mind and the mind doesn't exist in non-living things. Mind is subjective and isn't spatial (height, length, width) like brain or brick. Some dualist go so far as to suggest that mind and brain are properties of an unknown substance.
Let's put all are cards on the table...The average man is much taller and stronger then the average woman; male and female chromosomal differences; women tend to be left-hemisphered (cerebral cortex) while Rick prefers the right (in more ways then one).
Let's make some assumptions: intellect and reason (the higher functions partially genetic-jury still out). John Pokinhorn, physicist and priest (how's that for a combo!) states, "reductionist - replicating, information processing, and existing is all that they think that we do!"
We take in data through our senses and neurons light up as a result of the input while other neurons light up to generate a response. Memories are held in neurons and neural connections. Our mind can light up neurons in dreaming, day-dreaming and when engaging jn abstract thought without sensory input. matter and energy are two forms of the same thing as are particles and waves.
You see the sky and the pond floor when you look into a pond. Some photons of light bounce off of the water a strike your eyes while others bounce off of the pond floor. Quantum physics isn't deterministic. It can only talk in terms of probabilities. The probability of weather a particular photon will bounce off the water or floor. Is the photon thinking? no, energy can't think.
What is mind? A phenomenon that accompanies another phenomenon is usually parallel to it and is related in some way to it - precise electric correlates of conscious things in the human brain. Option one: mind and brain are different forms of the same thing; option two: mind fills out, completes, compliments brain; mind is made up of a mysterious unknown substance.
I'm going with option one and two: the abstract, imaginations, dreams, will and emotions, complete brain. It isn't genetic. Husband and wife complete each other; wave and particle complete each other; matter and energy complete each other or are different forms of same thing.. There different manifestations of the same thing and interact with each other.
I was born with a strong conservative gene. Issue two: the science-politics problem. Was this a political or science article? With a nod toward Mozart, Einstein and Edison...
My A.D.D. Self,
Rick
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939.sunspots@blogger.com
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 10:17 pm
Subject: Fwd: WHAT'S BETWEEN MY EARS?
Editor's note: article needs to be repeated as does another article from last year and a future article about behaviorism in order to be in Plato's Cave.
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To:
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 8:35 pm
Subject: WHAT'S BETWEEN MY EARS?
Don't worry about paying your rent: the liberal/secular media's messiah has arrived. Actually. I wish him the best - he is my president and Bush left him a financial mess. The liberal biased media doesn't want you to know that Billy-boy Clinton made it possible for individuals with little or no credit to get mortgages through Fanny and Freddy! President Bush thought that it was good idea to allow low income people to have the opportunity to own a house until 2005 when he realized that the policy Clinton implemented '98 had gone too far. He tried through executive decisions in 2005 to rectify the situation to no avail. He directed republican leaders to raise the issue with the chairman of the Senate Banking and Finance Committee, Barney 'is my skirt to short' Frank. He was told that there was a housing problem that could turn into a crisis. He refused to take any action and claimed that the republicans were making things up He was on watch and there
were no problems. And then came the domino effect: the mortgage domino fell leading to the fall of investment and commercial bank and wall street dominos. By the way, he. Oboma and other democrats were receiving campaign contributions - some for many years - from Fanny mae and Freddy Mac - - - both of which are semi-independent federal agencies. Possible crime here. Do you think the democrats will investigate their own. They and their liberals cohorts in the mainstream media will continue to blame Bush. You should spend some time thinking about the big, profound, cosmic questions before they place you six feet under. As for the democrats in congress - they were born with strong liberal genes...
The mind-body problem: Sociobiology; Tabula Rasa and Saving Self.
At least they don't tell me when to speak or go skydiving: Or, do they?!
Physicalists are philosophers who like most computer scientists, evolutionary psychologists and neuro-scientists harbor the view that the mind is physical and that mental states are neurological states or properties. And most of them subscribe to the sociobiological perspective regarding mind: intelligence; consciousness; thought; perception; memory; emotion; will; imagination; unconsciousness; personality; behavior.There's more in your genes then you think! Neurons are the brains nerve cells and cells contain genes. You can be born with a strong homosexual gene and therefore are likely to grow-up to be Barneyy Franks. They can't help being what they are anymore then you can, as a result, their life style should be excepted as normal
and condoned by society and recognized by government. (They aren't immoral -Bible; they aren't abnormal - traditional biology). You can be born with a strong criminal gene. Consequently,criminals shouldn't be severely punished they just couldn't help but shoot that guy. As Ann Courtler points out in her book, The church of liberalism:
" Why is it that liberals say that child molesters shouldn't be imprisoned but should receive psychotherapy instead. Weren't they born with a strong child molester gene? They can be helped but homosexuals can't. (I paraphrased somewhat). You can even be born with a strong nasty gene or a strong greedy gene - you got the idea. You programmed like a computer!
Some say that it's part nature(genes) and part nurture (environment). I don't find this argument palatable. X was born with a strong nasty gene and Y a weak nasty gene. What determines whether or not he will grow up to be nasty? They should just drop nature from the equation.
Their strongest argument: twins separated at birth have a 50% chance to grow up to have a similar personality and background. I don' find their argument compelling.
Bible: man has free will; traditional biology: human's have the most advanced brains and therefor aren'tslaves of their biology.
Tabula Rasa. Ibn Sina, Persian philosopher in the 11th century, "human intellect at birth is rather like a tabula rasa (blank slate), a pure potentiality that is actualized through education and that knowledge is attained through empirical familiarity with objects in this world from which gains abstract, universal conceptswhich is developed through reason ; observations lead to propositional statements which when compounded lead to further abstract concepts." The theory - originally proposed by Aristotle - has gone virtually unchanged.
Clearly, psychosis are the result of genes or structural brain structure damage. The meaning of facial expressions made by infants are universal.
Saving Self: at this juncture, we can all agree that genes determine hair texture, eye color,
congenital and hereditary disease, etc. There can be environmental constraints on realization. Genes might indicate that an individual will be tall and muscular due to lack of food or sanitary conditions or other factors in which the individual inhabits this might not come to pass. Biological characteristics,
Supporters of dualism maintain that mental phenomena are in some respects non-physical. They hold the view that phenomena may be perceived through a person's senses or with the mind and the mind doesn't exist in non-living things. Mind is subjective and isn't spatial (height, length, width) like brain or brick. Some dualist go so far as to suggest that mind and brain are properties of an unknown substance.
Let's put all are cards on the table...The average man is much taller and stronger then the average woman; male and female chromosomal differences; women tend to be left-hemisphered (cerebral cortex) while Rick prefers the right (in more ways then one).
Let's make some assumptions: intellect and reason (the higher functions partially genetic-jury still out). John Pokinhorn, physicist and priest (how's that for a combo!) states, "reductionist - replicating, information processing, and existing is all that they think that we do!"
We take in data through our senses and neurons light up as a result of the input while other neurons light up to generate a response. Memories are held in neurons and neural connections. Our mind can light up neurons in dreaming, day-dreaming and when engaging jn abstract thought without sensory input. matter and energy are two forms of the same thing as are particles and waves.
You see the sky and the pond floor when you look into a pond. Some photons of light bounce off of the water a strike your eyes while others bounce off of the pond floor. Quantum physics isn't deterministic. It can only talk in terms of probabilities. The probability of weather a particular photon will bounce off the water or floor. Is the photon thinking? no, energy can't think.
What is mind? A phenomenon that accompanies another phenomenon is usually parallel to it and is related in some way to it - precise electric correlates of conscious things in the human brain. Option one: mind and brain are different forms of the same thing; option two: mind fills out, completes, compliments brain; mind is made up of a mysterious unknown substance.
I'm going with option one and two: the abstract, imaginations, dreams, will and emotions, complete brain. It isn't genetic. Husband and wife complete each other; wave and particle complete each other; matter and energy complete each other or are different forms of same thing.. There different manifestations of the same thing and interact with each other.
I was born with a strong conservative gene. Issue two: the science-politics problem. Was this a political or science article? With a nod toward Mozart, Einstein and Edison...
My A.D.D. Self,
Rick
Fwd: addendum
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939.sunspots@blogger.com
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 10:11 pm
Subject: Fwd: addendum
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To:
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 9:06 pm
Subject: addendum
Self - you are the product of everything you learned in the order that you learned it; you are the product of everything you experienced in the order that you experienced it; and you are the product of everyone you have known - espec-
ally your parents. Genetics is too simple in comparison.
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939.sunspots@blogger.com
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 10:11 pm
Subject: Fwd: addendum
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To:
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 9:06 pm
Subject: addendum
ally your parents. Genetics is too simple in comparison.
Fwd: Perceptions: Whose Reality is Reality?
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 8, 2009 7:47 pm
Subject: Perceptions: Whose Reality is Reality?
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 8, 2009 7:47 pm
Subject: Perceptions: Whose Reality is Reality?
Dear Fans,
I intend to make a big and bold contention at the end of what represents one of my last e-mail/articles. Forgive
me that was shocking and callus on my part. I should have warned you to get a bottle of booze (I couldn't join you
having removed alcoholism gold turkey along with smoking as two of my personality traits) or a bottle of valium
before I hit you with that monumental news. Grow-up. Get a hold of yourself. Life won't end - just life as you
once new it. A message to virtually everyone else: I hope that you enjoy the party that you are going to throw
in order to celebrate. Caution: don't celebrate too much for I will continue to send my friends typical-amphetamine-
free-prosaic e-mails of the kind that you have come to love. All kidding aside: I enjoy there social nature.
Bring it on...There are a few democrats in and outside of Congress who want to establish a truth squad to
investigate Bush and his administration. You know the one: he cut taxes big time ala Presidents Kennedy and
Reagan (the tax cuts had nothing to do with the present economic/financial crisis - - - that was courtesy of
Clinton and Frank regarding loans which triggered a much wider mess); protected us from another terrorist attack;
won the Iraqi was - - - establishing the first Arab democracy in the middle east; protected traditional marriage; crippled
the Bin Laden gang; got Libya to give up its WMDs; did more to help stop the spread of disease in Africa then the
so called black president - Clinton; prevented American health professionals using federal funds from committing
murder (abortion) when doing humanitarian work in foreign countries - Oboma is allowing it; strictly
limited embryonic stem cell research - I'd oppose it even if it meant that I could walk again, adult stem and am biotic
flued research is more more promising - nonetheless, Oboma isn't going my way.
As a republican I want a truth squad established to investigate the Clinton/ China connection. It was only
superficially examined. Follow the money. Missile technology for China. Al Gore not knowing why he was
collecting envelopes in a Buddhist Temple in California!
Truth? What the hell do liberals know about truth when their media and public school are so one-sided.
They wouldn't know truth if it went up Barney Frank's ass! Physicist Haldane once said in another context, "The
universe is queerer then we imagine; the universe is queerer then we can imagine." (Perhaps, I should join P.C.-an-
onomous?!) Do you favor thruth commissions?
Commander-in Chief ,,,The president takes an oath to protect Americans from enemies foreign and domestic in
time of war. Lincoln suspended hubious corpus during the civil war. Roosevelt (a darling to liberals) kept enemy
P.O.W.s until the end of World War Two without specific charges against them and interred hundreds of thousands
of Jap-Americans. War Crimes: only to liberals who want to grant terrorists and enemy combatants all the
legal and civil rights of American citizens. I got a great idea: let's exhume Rooselt's decaying body and prop him
up on a witness chair and lodge charges against him like a 13th century pope did against his predecessor!
Where has my America gone? It's gone away. Times are a-changing. And all the time the president knew
it and all the time Pelusi knew it...I never thought that the day would come when 40% of my bank Citibank (Citi-
corp) would be owned by my uncle Sam.
The House that are founding daddies built... The liberal government has one wreaking ball and the liberal
unions the other. The old Protestant work ethic is in the gutter. Do you think that spending millions on
studying pig farts is going to create jobs and stimulate the economy/ Do you think modeling our economy on
a zero-growth economy like France will encourage people to work hard in a society that wages class warfare? Correct me.
Tell me what's good about the so-called stimulus plan.Tell me what's good about socialized medicine. Tell
me what's good about increases taxes on those who create jobs: the rich and the corporations. Tell me why
you should struggle to pay your mortgage and the mortgage of someone who got in over their head because of
Clinton and Frank? What would you do if you were president.
Speaking of Paul...More and more it seems to me that today's Christian churches are based more on Paul, Luke
and Emperor Constantine then on Jesus and the 12 apostles. Paul never met Jesus but claimed to have a vision
of Him rising. It didn't sit well with some of the Apostles that he considered himself the 13th apostles.His
Christian church triumphed over the Apostles' People of the way. About three hundred years after Jesus was crucified
Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire and authorized the creation of the New Testament.
75% of it is written by Luke; 50% is written by Paul or is about Paul and Luke's Paul.
After Al Gore created the Internet...On the first day, he created the Internet and saw that it was good; on the
second day, he created global warming and saw that it was good; on the third day, he went to a Buddhist temple
and saw the alms were good.
On being macho and being afraid: it's not nice to mess with mother nature or God...virtual reality,
holograms, sex-change operations, human cloning, babies having babies; single mothers, genetic engineering,
cyborgs, androids, evolutionary biology and psychology, quantum physics and nanotechnology scare me to death.
I warned you at the beginning that I was saving something big, bold and shocking for the end (stop
doing cartwheels and shouting 'hallelujah.'). I hereby contend that I know more about what's going on outside
then people who go outside. Sometimes it's better to step inside to get a better view of outside. Is it better
to be at a ball game or watch it on T.V. (where you get instant replays from various angles and tons of
statistics). The average person is woefully uninformed and parochial in their perspective (I need to reread, "How
to Make Friends and Influence people" its been years).I studied the history of entertainment in America from
the late 1700s to to the present, therefore, I am in a better position to judge the quality of writing, directing,
acting, composing and singing. I know more about what's going on in public schools them most parents know.
I know of the past 4 major studies onl global warming that 3 indicate that little or know global warming is
taken place. I know that I know more about science then Al. Liberals politicians lie and the lie is trans
mitted via the liberal media and schools. I studied things that I don't like - like art, I occasionally watch
channels that I don't like - like G4 and Current (on the fourth day Al created this cable network) to keep
tabs on some 18 to 35 year olds. Religious channels with youths active in their faith. I know that younger
people aren't an homogenous group the way the media generally portraits them. I know the
difference between the GDP and the GNP. I know about different cultures and the problems faced by many
of our senior. I am cognizant of the fact that the lousy, little, lying liberals (how do you like this alliteration?) destroyed traditional morality
and the fucks should burn in hell (I already signed up for PC training!).
On facing your fears... I am aware of the fact that the answers aren't necessarily in ancient writings. The answers to our
most profound questions lie were we fear to thread in the Twilight Zone. The answers to our deepest
questions, our salvation and our eternity lie in our mind (where are feelings and personalities lie (figuratively speak-
ing in our hearts), dualism, relativistic physics, quantum mechanics, our genetic code, astronomical
evolution, geological evolution, biological evolution, string theory, m-theory, computer technology, neurons/
computer chips interface, nanotechnology, pantheism, deism, nature and GOD!
Outsiders vs. Insiders...Harriman said of Krazy Kat: "May in some soon time...let in the light which is
now to our meager vision denied...for you will understand him no better then we who linger on this side of the
pale."
See you in the funnies...
STANDING TALL-outside in,
Rick
I intend to make a big and bold contention at the end of what represents one of my last e-mail/articles. Forgive
me that was shocking and callus on my part. I should have warned you to get a bottle of booze (I couldn't join you
having removed alcoholism gold turkey along with smoking as two of my personality traits) or a bottle of valium
before I hit you with that monumental news. Grow-up. Get a hold of yourself. Life won't end - just life as you
once new it. A message to virtually everyone else: I hope that you enjoy the party that you are going to throw
in order to celebrate. Caution: don't celebrate too much for I will continue to send my friends typical-amphetamine-
free-prosaic e-mails of the kind that you have come to love. All kidding aside: I enjoy there social nature.
Bring it on...There are a few democrats in and outside of Congress who want to establish a truth squad to
investigate Bush and his administration. You know the one: he cut taxes big time ala Presidents Kennedy and
Reagan (the tax cuts had nothing to do with the present economic/financial crisis - - - that was courtesy of
Clinton and Frank regarding loans which triggered a much wider mess); protected us from another terrorist attack;
won the Iraqi was - - - establishing the first Arab democracy in the middle east; protected traditional marriage; crippled
the Bin Laden gang; got Libya to give up its WMDs; did more to help stop the spread of disease in Africa then the
so called black president - Clinton; prevented American health professionals using federal funds from committing
murder (abortion) when doing humanitarian work in foreign countries - Oboma is allowing it; strictly
limited embryonic stem cell research - I'd oppose it even if it meant that I could walk again, adult stem and am biotic
flued research is more more promising - nonetheless, Oboma isn't going my way.
As a republican I want a truth squad established to investigate the Clinton/ China connection. It was only
superficially examined. Follow the money. Missile technology for China. Al Gore not knowing why he was
collecting envelopes in a Buddhist Temple in California!
Truth? What the hell do liberals know about truth when their media and public school are so one-sided.
They wouldn't know truth if it went up Barney Frank's ass! Physicist Haldane once said in another context, "The
universe is queerer then we imagine; the universe is queerer then we can imagine." (Perhaps, I should join P.C.-an-
onomous?!) Do you favor thruth commissions?
Commander-in Chief ,,,The president takes an oath to protect Americans from enemies foreign and domestic in
time of war. Lincoln suspended hubious corpus during the civil war. Roosevelt (a darling to liberals) kept enemy
P.O.W.s until the end of World War Two without specific charges against them and interred hundreds of thousands
of Jap-Americans. War Crimes: only to liberals who want to grant terrorists and enemy combatants all the
legal and civil rights of American citizens. I got a great idea: let's exhume Rooselt's decaying body and prop him
up on a witness chair and lodge charges against him like a 13th century pope did against his predecessor!
Where has my America gone? It's gone away. Times are a-changing. And all the time the president knew
it and all the time Pelusi knew it...I never thought that the day would come when 40% of my bank Citibank (Citi-
corp) would be owned by my uncle Sam.
The House that are founding daddies built... The liberal government has one wreaking ball and the liberal
unions the other. The old Protestant work ethic is in the gutter. Do you think that spending millions on
studying pig farts is going to create jobs and stimulate the economy/ Do you think modeling our economy on
a zero-growth economy like France will encourage people to work hard in a society that wages class warfare? Correct me.
Tell me what's good about the so-called stimulus plan.Tell me what's good about socialized medicine. Tell
me what's good about increases taxes on those who create jobs: the rich and the corporations. Tell me why
you should struggle to pay your mortgage and the mortgage of someone who got in over their head because of
Clinton and Frank? What would you do if you were president.
Speaking of Paul...More and more it seems to me that today's Christian churches are based more on Paul, Luke
and Emperor Constantine then on Jesus and the 12 apostles. Paul never met Jesus but claimed to have a vision
of Him rising. It didn't sit well with some of the Apostles that he considered himself the 13th apostles.His
Christian church triumphed over the Apostles' People of the way. About three hundred years after Jesus was crucified
Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire and authorized the creation of the New Testament.
75% of it is written by Luke; 50% is written by Paul or is about Paul and Luke's Paul.
After Al Gore created the Internet...On the first day, he created the Internet and saw that it was good; on the
second day, he created global warming and saw that it was good; on the third day, he went to a Buddhist temple
and saw the alms were good.
On being macho and being afraid: it's not nice to mess with mother nature or God...virtual reality,
holograms, sex-change operations, human cloning, babies having babies; single mothers, genetic engineering,
cyborgs, androids, evolutionary biology and psychology, quantum physics and nanotechnology scare me to death.
I warned you at the beginning that I was saving something big, bold and shocking for the end (stop
doing cartwheels and shouting 'hallelujah.'). I hereby contend that I know more about what's going on outside
then people who go outside. Sometimes it's better to step inside to get a better view of outside. Is it better
to be at a ball game or watch it on T.V. (where you get instant replays from various angles and tons of
statistics). The average person is woefully uninformed and parochial in their perspective (I need to reread, "How
to Make Friends and Influence people" its been years).I studied the history of entertainment in America from
the late 1700s to to the present, therefore, I am in a better position to judge the quality of writing, directing,
acting, composing and singing. I know more about what's going on in public schools them most parents know.
I know of the past 4 major studies onl global warming that 3 indicate that little or know global warming is
taken place. I know that I know more about science then Al. Liberals politicians lie and the lie is trans
mitted via the liberal media and schools. I studied things that I don't like - like art, I occasionally watch
channels that I don't like - like G4 and Current (on the fourth day Al created this cable network) to keep
tabs on some 18 to 35 year olds. Religious channels with youths active in their faith. I know that younger
people aren't an homogenous group the way the media generally portraits them. I know the
difference between the GDP and the GNP. I know about different cultures and the problems faced by many
of our senior. I am cognizant of the fact that the lousy, little, lying liberals (how do you like this alliteration?) destroyed traditional morality
and the fucks should burn in hell (I already signed up for PC training!).
On facing your fears... I am aware of the fact that the answers aren't necessarily in ancient writings. The answers to our
most profound questions lie were we fear to thread in the Twilight Zone. The answers to our deepest
questions, our salvation and our eternity lie in our mind (where are feelings and personalities lie (figuratively speak-
ing in our hearts), dualism, relativistic physics, quantum mechanics, our genetic code, astronomical
evolution, geological evolution, biological evolution, string theory, m-theory, computer technology, neurons/
computer chips interface, nanotechnology, pantheism, deism, nature and GOD!
Outsiders vs. Insiders...Harriman said of Krazy Kat: "May in some soon time...let in the light which is
now to our meager vision denied...for you will understand him no better then we who linger on this side of the
pale."
See you in the funnies...
STANDING TALL-outside in,
Rick
Fwd: ScienceDaily: First Stars In The Universe -- Astronomers Reveal First Objects In Our Universe
-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 10:09 am
Subject: ScienceDaily: First Stars In The Universe -- Astronomers Reveal First Objects In Our Universe
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 10:09 am
Subject: ScienceDaily: First Stars In The Universe -- Astronomers Reveal First Objects In Our Universe
Richard DePersio (rrdd3939@aol.com) has sent you a link to the following page on ScienceDaily:
First Stars In The Universe -- Astronomers Reveal First Objects In Our Universe
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0607-first_stars_in_the_universe.htm
Astronomers removed light from closer and better known galaxies and stars from pictures taken with the Spitzer Space Telescope. The remaining images are believed to be the first objects in space, 13 billion light years away.
* Note: the sender's email address has not been verified.
First Stars In The Universe -- Astronomers Reveal First Objects In Our Universe
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0607-first_stars_in_the_universe.htm
Astronomers removed light from closer and better known galaxies and stars from pictures taken with the Spitzer Space Telescope. The remaining images are believed to be the first objects in space, 13 billion light years away.
* Note: the sender's email address has not been verified.
Sunday, April 4, 2010
Fwd: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
Editor's Note: Thank you: Mind's Eye
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11 am
Subject: Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
--
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From: Don Johnson <dajohn@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11 am
Subject: Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:00 AM, ornamentalmind <ornamentalmind@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are you saying there 'shouldn't' be accountability? Or are you just quoting your favorite fortune cookie?
dj
"Shoulds" imply a lack of acceptance of the nature of reality as it
is. Such puffery and wishes to impose ego upon appearances is the way
of suffering.
Are you saying there 'shouldn't' be accountability? Or are you just quoting your favorite fortune cookie?
dj
On Mar 29, 5:50 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dropping them is my knee-jerk reaction. I'm trying to think long-term
> economic health for the entire region. It's important to have a plan that
> gets implemented and then stuck with. Too often concessions are given again
> and again and the lesson learned is there really is no accountability.
> Well, there should be.
> dj
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First you say drop Greece like a bad transmission then follow with
> > wanting to see the Union remain intact. To drop Greece might set a
> > precedent that only the viable members are worth keeping in the fold.
> > The bugs need to be worked out for sure and there could be more
> > unforeseen follies ahead but nary a nation has been without them,
> > needless to say ours.
>
> > On Mar 28, 8:37 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > First, I have to say the gentlemen from Wurzburg has a delightful
> > surname.
> > > This theme song played over in my head as I re-read the interview.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr2_GNIF1WI
>
> > > There are two key quotes I took from the interview that I agree with.
> > The
> > > first.
>
> > > "A community can't function when it's made up of
> > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals."-Starbatty
>
> > > This is key. Sounds pompous and maybe it is but it doesn't make it any
> > less
> > > true. The next quote is in reply to the observation that economists make
> > > lousy oracles.
>
> > > "Many of us put too much stock in numbers. But
> > > mathematical models can't depict complex realities."-Starbatty(also
> > > delightfully named);-)
>
> > > Adding to that my complete ignorance of European economics I've come to
> > the
> > > none too startling conclusion that I have no idea what should be done
> > here.
> > > My instincts say drop Greece like a bad transmission from the Union but
> > help
> > > them by encouraging investment there. Perhaps something in-between
> > > completely booting them out and keeping them as a trusted partner. Put
> > them
> > > in an economic half-way house as it were.
>
> > > I'm afraid Starbatty may be correct and if the Union bails them out now
> > > other countries will be tempted to be fraudulent as well. Personally,
> > I'd
> > > like to see the Union remain whole if for no other reason then it helps
> > keep
> > > Germany in check. I much prefer the current pacifist leadership over the
> > > nationalist leadership from days of old.
>
> > > Just curious. How do the Minds Eye Brits feel about the EU? Are you
> > glad
> > > or disappointed that the pound lives on?
>
> > > dj
>
> > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Tell us what you think after you check out this Interview conducted by
> > > > Thomas Tuma and Alexander Jung of Spiegel Online International
> > > > with.........
>
> > > > Peter Bofinger, 55, a member of the German Council of Economic
> > > > Experts, a respected panel of five economists who advise the federal
> > > > government in Berlin. The economist, who lives in the Bavarian city of
> > > > Würzburg, founded a pro-euro initiative in 1997.
>
> > > > AND
>
> > > > Joachim Starbatty, 69, a professor emeritus in economics at the
> > > > University of Tübingen in southwestern Germany. In 1997, he and three
> > > > other academics filed a lawsuit against the introduction of the euro
> > > > at Germany's Constitutional Court, though it was ultimately
> > > > unsuccessful.
>
> > > > The Interview is titled:
> > > > Bringer of Prosperity or Bottomless Pit?
> > > > Top German Economists Debate the Euro
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: Mr. Bofinger and Mr. Starbatty, do you think it was a mistake
> > > > to introduce the euro?
>
> > > > Peter Bofinger: No, of course not. Today, we live in a currency zone
> > > > that, despite everything, is significantly more stable than where the
> > > > dollar or yen are used. The euro has brought growth and prosperity to
> > > > Europe.
>
> > > > Joachim Starbatty: Actually, the euro was a mistake with particularly
> > > > serious consequences. A monetary union requires its members to pursue
> > > > the same policies and be similarly productive. The so-called
> > > > convergence criteria were meant to ensure that this would happen. But
> > > > -- as the dramatic developments in Greece are now showing -- they
> > > > didn't.
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: Do you feel vindicated today?
>
> > > > Starbatty: Unfortunately, our fears have become a reality. The
> > > > monetary union was launched with real self-deception.
>
> > > > Bofinger: Excuse me?
>
> > > > Starbatty: The euro was sold to us as a modernization program for
> > > > Europe, and we were also told that it would push the Community toward
> > > > stability. But, in reality, it has drifted apart and become a truly
> > > > unstable entity.
>
> > > > Bofinger: Unstable? The inflation rate has been very moderate,
> > > > hovering at around 2 percent since 1999, and it is significantly lower
> > > > than it was when Germany used the mark. We have a lower budget deficit
> > > > than the Americans, the Japanese and the British. Our debt-GDP ratio
> > > > is also lower than it is in the United States and Japan. There is no
> > > > reason why the euro should be coming under pressure. The decision to
> > > > introduce it was smart and far-sighted.
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: Without any drawbacks?
>
> > > > Bofinger: Sure, the euro zone is currently looking a little worse for
> > > > the wear. But that's to be expected, given the storm the global
> > > > economy has gone through. Still, thanks to the common currency, it's
> > > > no longer possible, for example, to wage speculative attacks on
> > > > individual currencies. This eliminates a key disruptive factor that
> > > > massively destabilized markets in the past.
>
> > > > Starbatty: But that's exactly the problem! In the past, exchange rates
> > > > served as a valve. Individual countries could control their economies
> > > > by allowing their currencies to gain or lose value. Now, this
> > > > adjustment mechanism no longer works and, as a result, a completely
> > > > different sort of dangerous imbalance has emerged. Today, there are
> > > > two blocs within the monetary union: a strong currency bloc in the
> > > > north and a weak one in the south. The robust north has joined forces
> > > > with countries that have constantly devalued their currency throughout
> > > > their histories. Just look at the Italian lira, for example. At the
> > > > end of the 1950s, I paid 6.70 German marks for 1,000 lire. The final
> > > > exchange rate was less than one mark for 1,000 lire.
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: What would happen if the old currencies were reintroduced in
> > > > the euro zone tomorrow?
>
> > > > Bofinger: It would be a catastrophe. The German mark would have to
> > > > appreciate significantly -- I'd say by 10 percent to 20 percent.
> > > > Everything that we've worked so hard to attain in terms of
> > > > competitiveness would vanish overnight. There would be wailing and the
> > > > gnashing of teeth in Germany. And Europe would be making a serious
> > > > mistake if it were to revert to regionalism and nationalism during
> > > > this phase of advancing globalization.
>
> > > > Starbatty: I see things completely differently. The euro was also sold
> > > > to citizens as an instrument for securing peace. I never understood
> > > > that because, if that really were the case, you would have to open the
> > > > monetary union to everyone. Instead, in light of its failure, we are
> > > > now witnessing just how nationalism arises in the first place. EU
> > > > flags have already been burned in Greece.
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: Would it have been better if all countries in Europe had kept
> > > > their own currencies?
>
> > > > Starbatty: Yes. A community can't function when it's made up of
> > > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals. With the euro,
> > > > Germany has created an artificial competitive advantage for itself,
> > > > which has enabled us to conquer markets all over the world. But this
> > > > has also led to the buildup of massive excess capacity in our export
> > > > industries and, consequently, the export-oriented companies in the
> > > > southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg are hurting. The monetary
> > > > union changed the structure of economies in an unhealthy way.
>
> > > > Bofinger: Oh, come on! You can't blame the euro for these imbalances!
> > > > The blame primarily lies with economic policies. Since 1995, there
> > > > have been almost no appreciable wage increases in Germany, partly as a
> > > > result of pressure brought on from increases in subcontracted labor.
> > > > Politicians have done everything to relieve employers of the burden of
> > > > paying social security contributions because we fell into this strange
> > > > panic, believing we weren't globally competitive. With our economic
> > > > policies, we placed too much of a lopsided emphasis on exports. The
> > > > Irish, Greeks and Spaniards, on the other hand, put too much emphasis
> > > > on domestic demand.
>
> > > > 'Putting the Virtuous in the Dock Rather than the Real Offenders'
>
> > > > SPIEGEL: In recent days, French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde has
> > > > repeatedly criticized Germany's export surpluses for being high
> > > > compared with those of other EU countries. Is she right to do so?
>
> > > > Starbatty: No. I think it's strange that Madame Lagarde is putting the
> > > > virtuous, who have always been oriented toward stability, in the dock
> > > > rather than the real offenders.
>
> > > > Bofinger: But the Germans have sinned just as much as the Spaniards,
> > > > for example. The Spaniards made their wages too high, while we in
> > > > Germany practiced the opposite by not increasing the purchasing power
> > > > of workers for years.
>
> > > > Starbatty: So what? It made us successful. It arose from the concern
> > > > that jobs would migrate abroad. And Germany's moderate wage policy has
> > > > made the country attractive to companies again.
>
> > > > Bofinger: You should look at it more holistically. We wouldn't have
> > > > been able to increase our exports if the
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Fwd: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
-----Original Message-----
From: ornamentalmind <ornamentalmind@yahoo.com>
To: "Minds Eye" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
From: ornamentalmind <ornamentalmind@yahoo.com>
To: "Minds Eye" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
"Shoulds" imply a lack of acceptance of the nature of reality as it is. Such puffery and wishes to impose ego upon appearances is the way of suffering. On Mar 29, 5:50 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dropping them is my knee-jerk reaction. I'm trying to think long-term > economic health for the entire region. It's important to have a plan that > gets implemented and then stuck with. Too often concessions are given again > and again and the lesson learned is there really is no accountability. > Well, there should be. > dj > > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote: > > First you say drop Greece like a bad transmission then follow with > > wanting to see the Union remain intact. To drop Greece might set a > > precedent that only the viable members are worth keeping in the fold. > > The bugs need to be worked out for sure and there could be more > > unforeseen follies ahead but nary a nation has been without them, > > needless to say ours. > > > On Mar 28, 8:37 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > First, I have to say the gentlemen from Wurzburg has a delightful > > surname. > > > This theme song played over in my head as I re-read the interview. > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr2_GNIF1WI > > > > There are two key quotes I took from the interview that I agree with. > > The > > > first. > > > > "A community can't function when it's made up of > > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals."-Starbatty > > > > This is key. Sounds pompous and maybe it is but it doesn't make it any > > less > > > true. The next quote is in reply to the observation that economists make > > > lousy oracles. > > > > "Many of us put too much stock in numbers. But > > > mathematical models can't depict complex realities."-Starbatty(also > > > delightfully named);-) > > > > Adding to that my complete ignorance of European economics I've come to > > the > > > none too startling conclusion that I have no idea what should be done > > here. > > > My instincts say drop Greece like a bad transmission from the Union but > > help > > > them by encouraging investment there. Perhaps something in-between > > > completely booting them out and keeping them as a trusted partner. Put > > them > > > in an economic half-way house as it were. > > > > I'm afraid Starbatty may be correct and if the Union bails them out now > > > other countries will be tempted to be fraudulent as well. Personally, > > I'd > > > like to see the Union remain whole if for no other reason then it helps > > keep > > > Germany in check. I much prefer the current pacifist leadership over the > > > nationalist leadership from days of old. > > > > Just curious. How do the Minds Eye Brits feel about the EU? Are you > > glad > > > or disappointed that the pound lives on? > > > > dj > > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Tell us what you think after you check out this Interview conducted by > > > > Thomas Tuma and Alexander Jung of Spiegel Online International > > > > with......... > > > > > Peter Bofinger, 55, a member of the German Council of Economic > > > > Experts, a respected panel of five economists who advise the federal > > > > government in Berlin. The economist, who lives in the Bavarian city of > > > > Würzburg, founded a pro-euro initiative in 1997. > > > > > AND > > > > > Joachim Starbatty, 69, a professor emeritus in economics at the > > > > University of Tübingen in southwestern Germany. In 1997, he and three > > > > other academics filed a lawsuit against the introduction of the euro > > > > at Germany's Constitutional Court, though it was ultimately > > > > unsuccessful. > > > > > The Interview is titled: > > > > Bringer of Prosperity or Bottomless Pit? > > > > Top German Economists Debate the Euro > > > > > SPIEGEL: Mr. Bofinger and Mr. Starbatty, do you think it was a mistake > > > > to introduce the euro? > > > > > Peter Bofinger: No, of course not. Today, we live in a currency zone > > > > that, despite everything, is significantly more stable than where the > > > > dollar or yen are used. The euro has brought growth and prosperity to > > > > Europe. > > > > > Joachim Starbatty: Actually, the euro was a mistake with particularly > > > > serious consequences. A monetary union requires its members to pursue > > > > the same policies and be similarly productive. The so-called > > > > convergence criteria were meant to ensure that this would happen. But > > > > -- as the dramatic developments in Greece are now showing -- they > > > > didn't. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Do you feel vindicated today? > > > > > Starbatty: Unfortunately, our fears have become a reality. The > > > > monetary union was launched with real self-deception. > > > > > Bofinger: Excuse me? > > > > > Starbatty: The euro was sold to us as a modernization program for > > > > Europe, and we were also told that it would push the Community toward > > > > stability. But, in reality, it has drifted apart and become a truly > > > > unstable entity. > > > > > Bofinger: Unstable? The inflation rate has been very moderate, > > > > hovering at around 2 percent since 1999, and it is significantly lower > > > > than it was when Germany used the mark. We have a lower budget deficit > > > > than the Americans, the Japanese and the British. Our debt-GDP ratio > > > > is also lower than it is in the United States and Japan. There is no > > > > reason why the euro should be coming under pressure. The decision to > > > > introduce it was smart and far-sighted. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Without any drawbacks? > > > > > Bofinger: Sure, the euro zone is currently looking a little worse for > > > > the wear. But that's to be expected, given the storm the global > > > > economy has gone through. Still, thanks to the common currency, it's > > > > no longer possible, for example, to wage speculative attacks on > > > > individual currencies. This eliminates a key disruptive factor that > > > > massively destabilized markets in the past. > > > > > Starbatty: But that's exactly the problem! In the past, exchange rates > > > > served as a valve. Individual countries could control their economies > > > > by allowing their currencies to gain or lose value. Now, this > > > > adjustment mechanism no longer works and, as a result, a completely > > > > different sort of dangerous imbalance has emerged. Today, there are > > > > two blocs within the monetary union: a strong currency bloc in the > > > > north and a weak one in the south. The robust north has joined forces > > > > with countries that have constantly devalued their currency throughout > > > > their histories. Just look at the Italian lira, for example. At the > > > > end of the 1950s, I paid 6.70 German marks for 1,000 lire. The final > > > > exchange rate was less than one mark for 1,000 lire. > > > > > SPIEGEL: What would happen if the old currencies were reintroduced in > > > > the euro zone tomorrow? > > > > > Bofinger: It would be a catastrophe. The German mark would have to > > > > appreciate significantly -- I'd say by 10 percent to 20 percent. > > > > Everything that we've worked so hard to attain in terms of > > > > competitiveness would vanish overnight. There would be wailing and the > > > > gnashing of teeth in Germany. And Europe would be making a serious > > > > mistake if it were to revert to regionalism and nationalism during > > > > this phase of advancing globalization. > > > > > Starbatty: I see things completely differently. The euro was also sold > > > > to citizens as an instrument for securing peace. I never understood > > > > that because, if that really were the case, you would have to open the > > > > monetary union to everyone. Instead, in light of its failure, we are > > > > now witnessing just how nationalism arises in the first place. EU > > > > flags have already been burned in Greece. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Would it have been better if all countries in Europe had kept > > > > their own currencies? > > > > > Starbatty: Yes. A community can't function when it's made up of > > > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals. With the euro, > > > > Germany has created an artificial competitive advantage for itself, > > > > which has enabled us to conquer markets all over the world. But this > > > > has also led to the buildup of massive excess capacity in our export > > > > industries and, consequently, the export-oriented companies in the > > > > southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg are hurting. The monetary > > > > union changed the structure of economies in an unhealthy way. > > > > > Bofinger: Oh, come on! You can't blame the euro for these imbalances! > > > > The blame primarily lies with economic policies. Since 1995, there > > > > have been almost no appreciable wage increases in Germany, partly as a > > > > result of pressure brought on from increases in subcontracted labor. > > > > Politicians have done everything to relieve employers of the burden of > > > > paying social security contributions because we fell into this strange > > > > panic, believing we weren't globally competitive. With our economic > > > > policies, we placed too much of a lopsided emphasis on exports. The > > > > Irish, Greeks and Spaniards, on the other hand, put too much emphasis > > > > on domestic demand. > > > > > 'Putting the Virtuous in the Dock Rather than the Real Offenders' > > > > > SPIEGEL: In recent days, French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde has > > > > repeatedly criticized Germany's export surpluses for being high > > > > compared with those of other EU countries. Is she right to do so? > > > > > Starbatty: No. I think it's strange that Madame Lagarde is putting the > > > > virtuous, who have always been oriented toward stability, in the dock > > > > rather than the real offenders. > > > > > Bofinger: But the Germans have sinned just as much as the Spaniards, > > > > for example. The Spaniards made their wages too high, while we in > > > > Germany practiced the opposite by not increasing the purchasing power > > > > of workers for years. > > > > > Starbatty: So what? It made us successful. It arose from the concern > > > > that jobs would migrate abroad. And Germany's moderate wage policy has > > > > made the country attractive to companies again. > > > > > Bofinger: You should look at it more holistically. We wouldn't have > > > > been able to increase our exports if the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
Fwd: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
-----Original Message-----
From: ornamentalmind <ornamentalmind@yahoo.com>
To: "Minds Eye" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
From: ornamentalmind <ornamentalmind@yahoo.com>
To: "Minds Eye" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Euro the way of the Yugo?
"Shoulds" imply a lack of acceptance of the nature of reality as it is. Such puffery and wishes to impose ego upon appearances is the way of suffering. On Mar 29, 5:50 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dropping them is my knee-jerk reaction. I'm trying to think long-term > economic health for the entire region. It's important to have a plan that > gets implemented and then stuck with. Too often concessions are given again > and again and the lesson learned is there really is no accountability. > Well, there should be. > dj > > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote: > > First you say drop Greece like a bad transmission then follow with > > wanting to see the Union remain intact. To drop Greece might set a > > precedent that only the viable members are worth keeping in the fold. > > The bugs need to be worked out for sure and there could be more > > unforeseen follies ahead but nary a nation has been without them, > > needless to say ours. > > > On Mar 28, 8:37 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > First, I have to say the gentlemen from Wurzburg has a delightful > > surname. > > > This theme song played over in my head as I re-read the interview. > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr2_GNIF1WI > > > > There are two key quotes I took from the interview that I agree with. > > The > > > first. > > > > "A community can't function when it's made up of > > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals."-Starbatty > > > > This is key. Sounds pompous and maybe it is but it doesn't make it any > > less > > > true. The next quote is in reply to the observation that economists make > > > lousy oracles. > > > > "Many of us put too much stock in numbers. But > > > mathematical models can't depict complex realities."-Starbatty(also > > > delightfully named);-) > > > > Adding to that my complete ignorance of European economics I've come to > > the > > > none too startling conclusion that I have no idea what should be done > > here. > > > My instincts say drop Greece like a bad transmission from the Union but > > help > > > them by encouraging investment there. Perhaps something in-between > > > completely booting them out and keeping them as a trusted partner. Put > > them > > > in an economic half-way house as it were. > > > > I'm afraid Starbatty may be correct and if the Union bails them out now > > > other countries will be tempted to be fraudulent as well. Personally, > > I'd > > > like to see the Union remain whole if for no other reason then it helps > > keep > > > Germany in check. I much prefer the current pacifist leadership over the > > > nationalist leadership from days of old. > > > > Just curious. How do the Minds Eye Brits feel about the EU? Are you > > glad > > > or disappointed that the pound lives on? > > > > dj > > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Tell us what you think after you check out this Interview conducted by > > > > Thomas Tuma and Alexander Jung of Spiegel Online International > > > > with......... > > > > > Peter Bofinger, 55, a member of the German Council of Economic > > > > Experts, a respected panel of five economists who advise the federal > > > > government in Berlin. The economist, who lives in the Bavarian city of > > > > Würzburg, founded a pro-euro initiative in 1997. > > > > > AND > > > > > Joachim Starbatty, 69, a professor emeritus in economics at the > > > > University of Tübingen in southwestern Germany. In 1997, he and three > > > > other academics filed a lawsuit against the introduction of the euro > > > > at Germany's Constitutional Court, though it was ultimately > > > > unsuccessful. > > > > > The Interview is titled: > > > > Bringer of Prosperity or Bottomless Pit? > > > > Top German Economists Debate the Euro > > > > > SPIEGEL: Mr. Bofinger and Mr. Starbatty, do you think it was a mistake > > > > to introduce the euro? > > > > > Peter Bofinger: No, of course not. Today, we live in a currency zone > > > > that, despite everything, is significantly more stable than where the > > > > dollar or yen are used. The euro has brought growth and prosperity to > > > > Europe. > > > > > Joachim Starbatty: Actually, the euro was a mistake with particularly > > > > serious consequences. A monetary union requires its members to pursue > > > > the same policies and be similarly productive. The so-called > > > > convergence criteria were meant to ensure that this would happen. But > > > > -- as the dramatic developments in Greece are now showing -- they > > > > didn't. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Do you feel vindicated today? > > > > > Starbatty: Unfortunately, our fears have become a reality. The > > > > monetary union was launched with real self-deception. > > > > > Bofinger: Excuse me? > > > > > Starbatty: The euro was sold to us as a modernization program for > > > > Europe, and we were also told that it would push the Community toward > > > > stability. But, in reality, it has drifted apart and become a truly > > > > unstable entity. > > > > > Bofinger: Unstable? The inflation rate has been very moderate, > > > > hovering at around 2 percent since 1999, and it is significantly lower > > > > than it was when Germany used the mark. We have a lower budget deficit > > > > than the Americans, the Japanese and the British. Our debt-GDP ratio > > > > is also lower than it is in the United States and Japan. There is no > > > > reason why the euro should be coming under pressure. The decision to > > > > introduce it was smart and far-sighted. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Without any drawbacks? > > > > > Bofinger: Sure, the euro zone is currently looking a little worse for > > > > the wear. But that's to be expected, given the storm the global > > > > economy has gone through. Still, thanks to the common currency, it's > > > > no longer possible, for example, to wage speculative attacks on > > > > individual currencies. This eliminates a key disruptive factor that > > > > massively destabilized markets in the past. > > > > > Starbatty: But that's exactly the problem! In the past, exchange rates > > > > served as a valve. Individual countries could control their economies > > > > by allowing their currencies to gain or lose value. Now, this > > > > adjustment mechanism no longer works and, as a result, a completely > > > > different sort of dangerous imbalance has emerged. Today, there are > > > > two blocs within the monetary union: a strong currency bloc in the > > > > north and a weak one in the south. The robust north has joined forces > > > > with countries that have constantly devalued their currency throughout > > > > their histories. Just look at the Italian lira, for example. At the > > > > end of the 1950s, I paid 6.70 German marks for 1,000 lire. The final > > > > exchange rate was less than one mark for 1,000 lire. > > > > > SPIEGEL: What would happen if the old currencies were reintroduced in > > > > the euro zone tomorrow? > > > > > Bofinger: It would be a catastrophe. The German mark would have to > > > > appreciate significantly -- I'd say by 10 percent to 20 percent. > > > > Everything that we've worked so hard to attain in terms of > > > > competitiveness would vanish overnight. There would be wailing and the > > > > gnashing of teeth in Germany. And Europe would be making a serious > > > > mistake if it were to revert to regionalism and nationalism during > > > > this phase of advancing globalization. > > > > > Starbatty: I see things completely differently. The euro was also sold > > > > to citizens as an instrument for securing peace. I never understood > > > > that because, if that really were the case, you would have to open the > > > > monetary union to everyone. Instead, in light of its failure, we are > > > > now witnessing just how nationalism arises in the first place. EU > > > > flags have already been burned in Greece. > > > > > SPIEGEL: Would it have been better if all countries in Europe had kept > > > > their own currencies? > > > > > Starbatty: Yes. A community can't function when it's made up of > > > > unequal partners who are supposed to behave as equals. With the euro, > > > > Germany has created an artificial competitive advantage for itself, > > > > which has enabled us to conquer markets all over the world. But this > > > > has also led to the buildup of massive excess capacity in our export > > > > industries and, consequently, the export-oriented companies in the > > > > southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg are hurting. The monetary > > > > union changed the structure of economies in an unhealthy way. > > > > > Bofinger: Oh, come on! You can't blame the euro for these imbalances! > > > > The blame primarily lies with economic policies. Since 1995, there > > > > have been almost no appreciable wage increases in Germany, partly as a > > > > result of pressure brought on from increases in subcontracted labor. > > > > Politicians have done everything to relieve employers of the burden of > > > > paying social security contributions because we fell into this strange > > > > panic, believing we weren't globally competitive. With our economic > > > > policies, we placed too much of a lopsided emphasis on exports. The > > > > Irish, Greeks and Spaniards, on the other hand, put too much emphasis > > > > on domestic demand. > > > > > 'Putting the Virtuous in the Dock Rather than the Real Offenders' > > > > > SPIEGEL: In recent days, French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde has > > > > repeatedly criticized Germany's export surpluses for being high > > > > compared with those of other EU countries. Is she right to do so? > > > > > Starbatty: No. I think it's strange that Madame Lagarde is putting the > > > > virtuous, who have always been oriented toward stability, in the dock > > > > rather than the real offenders. > > > > > Bofinger: But the Germans have sinned just as much as the Spaniards, > > > > for example. The Spaniards made their wages too high, while we in > > > > Germany practiced the opposite by not increasing the purchasing power > > > > of workers for years. > > > > > Starbatty: So what? It made us successful. It arose from the concern > > > > that jobs would migrate abroad. And Germany's moderate wage policy has > > > > made the country attractive to companies again. > > > > > Bofinger: You should look at it more holistically. We wouldn't have > > > > been able to increase our exports if the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
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